They want to meet with me to discuss the job and won’t tell me who their client is.
On this show, I discuss 3 reasons why recruiters won’t tell you the client this.
[spp-transcript]
Here’s a question I received:
“What does it mean when a recruiter won’t tell me the name of the company that they are representing?”
“They want to meet with me 1st before talking in detail about the job.”
I’m not going to talk about ethics here because, even though you may think it is unethical, it is actually a non-issue. Here are the issues from a recruiters perspective:
1. You may attempt to circumvent them before you have a chance to talk with them about the job. By circumventing, you take the information you’ve been given and apply directly to the firm. They are out $20,000, $25,000 $30,000 $50,000, $75,000 $100,000 in fees, all because, frankly, there are some people out there (I’m not saying you) who are swine. Who are awful contemptible people, you think it is smart to steal things from others and cheat them out of what they rightly deserve.
2. Another issue is control. The desire to meet with you is indicative of control. They want to control the situation. They are between you and your client. They want to see you 1st and assess you 1st before revealing anything further. That is 1/2 step down from. “I won’t tell you anything because I’m afraid you will steal it from me.” They want to meet with you and discuss it in person. After they have a chance to evaluate you.
3. Another thing is, what’s in it for them? Perhaps their client has a brand that is not a positive and they can speak with you in person excite you about the job and then reveal it is this firm that has a pretty bad reputation in the market area, but has a unique opportunity.
Those are a few reasons why recruiters do it. There are many more but these are going to be the top 3 reasons why recruiters don’t reveal things.
[/spp-transcript]
Do you think employers are trying to help you?
You already know you can’t trust recruiters—they tell as they think you need to know to take the job they after representing so they collect their payday. The skills needed to find a job are different yet complement the skills needed to do a job.
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter has been a career coach and recruiter for what seems like one hundred years.
JobSearchCoachingHQ.com is there to change that with great advice for job hunters—videos, my books and guides to job hunting, podcasts, articles, PLUS a community for you to ask questions of PLUS the ability to ask me questions where I function as your ally with no conflict of interest answering your questions.
Why is her most recruiters unhelpful and tend to constantly ignore emails from applicants in the interview process? From my experience, recruiters always say something along the lines of, “Don’t hesitate to contact me if you have any questions,” but 90% of the time if it is not something they want to know from you such as your availability for interviews, it will just ignore your question or email.
[spp-transcript]
The question for today is:
“Why are most recruiters unhelpful and tend to ignore emails from applicants during the interview process?
From my experience recruiters always say something along the lines of, ‘Don’t hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.’ 90% of the time. It’s only when they want to know something from you like your availability for interviews when you will hear from them. Otherwise, they will just ignore your question or email.”
You have to understand the job of a recruiter.
I always start off at this basic point:
How much are you paying them? Probably nothing.
How much is an employer paying them? Employers are paying their fee. Thus, they are being paid to find people who will fit a job requirement and are qualified to do what employer needs to have done. Everything else is window dressing.
So you have questions. They are not paid to answer questions. Coaches are.
As a result, you have this mistaken notion that they are working for you, or that the 2 of you are working together to find you a job. When that couldn’t be furthest from the truth.
Those clinic phrases like, “Don’t hesitate to reach out,” are part of the seduction that recruiters used to help build relationship. The relationship is designed to engender trust by you (which obviously isn’t occurring here. That is the theory behind it), engender a relationship that fosters trust so that by the time a job offer is extended by the employer, you are less resistant to their “closing techniques” that will cause them to earn a fee.
They are not there to answer your questions. They are not social workers or counselors. They are there to recruit people to fill positions, fill them, and coincidentally make you happy.
Before you start replying and saying, “Without me, they don’t receive their fee,.” that is absolutely true. However, there are a lot more of you than there are of employers willing to pay the fee to them. Recruiters always believe that they can get a replacement person because they have proven it time and time again.
You, on the other hand, want that one job. As a result, recruiters are not particularly responsive if the client is not asking to meet with you or if you’re gonna take that advice or information to get a different job the one they are representing. What would they help you? Their job is to deliver you to their client, not help you get a job,
The confusion of the question comes from the mistaken notion that they should be responsive to you. That’s not their job. A recruiters there to fill positions with companies and coincidentally coach you into getting that job with their client. Period. In doing so, they earn a fee from that employer.
[/spp-transcript]
Do you really think employers are trying to help you?
You already know you can’t trust recruiters—they tell you as much as they think you need to know to take the job they after representing so they collect their payday.
The skills needed to find a job are different yet complement the skills needed to do a job.
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter has been a career coach and recruiter for what seems like one hundred years.
JobSearchCoachingHQ.com changes that with great advice for job hunters—videos, my books and guides to job hunting, podcasts, articles, PLUS a community for you to ask questions of PLUS the ability to ask me questions where I function as your ally with no conflict of interest answering your questions.
You can order a copy of “Diagnosing Your Job Search Problems” for Kindle for $.99 and receive free Kindle versions of “No BS Resume Advice” and “Interview Preparation.”
Ep 593 Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter encourages you to not waste peoples’ time when you submit your resume.
[spp-transcript]
Do you really think employers are trying to help you?
You already know you can’t trust recruiters—they tell you as much as they think you need to know to take the job they after representing so they collect their payday.
The skills needed to find a job are different yet complement the skills needed to do a job.
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter has been a career coach and recruiter for what seems like one hundred years.
JobSearchCoachingHQ.com changes that with great advice for job hunters—videos, my books and guides to job hunting, podcasts, articles, PLUS a community for you to ask questions of PLUS the ability to ask me questions where I function as your ally with no conflict of interest answering your questions.
You can order a copy of “Diagnosing Your Job Search Problems” for Kindle for $.99 and receive free Kindle versions of “No BS Resume Advice” and “Interview Preparation.”
I received a call from someone who asked this question.
“I got a call from someone I interviewed with and they left a message, but I haven’t received a follow-up email. Should I call them back? What should I do? Should I wait for the email? What do I do?”
It’s really very simple.
They called. You call back. It is not really complicated. So they didn’t send you an email. I know that maybe the convention of what your expectation is, but they didn’t do that. There convention may be a little bit different than what you are used to.
Very simply, if you get a call and you are wondering whether you should call them back or wait for an email, call them. Don’t be afraid. You can call them..
[/spp-transcript]
If you have a question about job hunting, email me at JobSearchRadio@gmail.com. I can’t answer every question . . . but you knew that!
Do you think employers are trying to help you?
You already know you can’t trust recruiters—they tell as they think you need to know to take the job they after representing so they collect their payday. The skills needed to find a job are different yet complement the skills needed to do a job.
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter has been a career coach and recruiter for what seems like one hundred years.
JobSearchCoachingHQ.com is there to change that with great advice for job hunters—videos, my books and guides to job hunting, podcasts, articles, PLUS a community for you to ask questions of PLUS the ability to ask me questions where I function as your ally with no conflict of interest answering your questions.
[svp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhjT-0iI-Uk[/svp] My answer to this question is crystal clear.
[spp-transcript]
Today’s question,
“How Do I Recognize a Good Recruiter or Headhunting Firm? “
I’m going to give you the answer that you don’t want to hear… But it is the truth.
The answer is you can’t.
You can pickup a clue or 2 along the way but I think the issue is the disconnect between what you define as a good recruiter and what a client might define as a good recruiter.
To you, a good recruiter is someone who can find you a job. To a corporation, a good recruiter is someone who can fill a position, who has good discernment, who has the ability to understand a person’s experience and ability. Who can understand with their particular corporate culture was like, save them time and deliver great potential new hires to them. The recruiter can’t guarantee that the firm will actually hire someone from them, but they can’t deliver good quality potential hires that make the decision difficult for an employer.
Let me go back to you, for example.
You want to hire someone who is a good recruiter or as a good headhunting firm. As a result, they have to have jobs that fit you. That basically translates into seeing what jobs that they have to fill in job hunters have a pretty loose idea of what fits their background. Judging by what I received in my inbox each day which tends to be hundred to 150 pieces of email that are little more than spam.
You send a resume to someone, you don’t hear back. And you say to yourself, “Hey! This is a bad recruiter. They didn’t call me!” However, you send a resume that did nothing to demonstrate that you are qualified for the role that they are trying to fill. So, to you, a good recruiter is always going to be the one who finds you a job.
I think there are clues to a successful recruiter or a good recruiter through longevity with one agency. For example, if you see someone who has been with the firm for 10 or 15 years, you know they are filling jobs. You know that firm has an environment for them that allows them to be able to perform at a high level for their corporate clients. That’s one indicator that guarantees that there is a possibility they could be effective for you, but there are no guarantees.
How can you recognize a good headhunting firm?
Longevity is normally a variable. As the firm did in operation for, I don’t know, pick a number of years? However, there are people who start off firms who may be out on their own now. They had been with the firm for 10 or 15 years and recently started a search firm that is only been open for 3 months. Does that make them less capable? I don’t think so.
I don’t think size of firm matters. After all, you can contact Robert Half, 1 of the largest recruiting firms in the world or Manpower, again, 1 of the largest recruiting firms in the world, you got the wrong person, what happens is that they miss out on opportunities for you. They aren’t sending you out on things because he got the wrong person at the right firm. To be clear, I am not endorsing either of those firms in case you misconstrue that I was using their names as an endorsement. I was just using them as an example of huge firms in the recruiting sector.
There are boutique firms that do a far better job than the larger firms, but they are specialized or “narrow focused.” They may be a part of a network of recruiting firms like n NPA Worldwide that allows firms to have good market penetration so that even though this person might be a solopreneur, they have access to 500+ other recruiting firms around the world and can submit your resume to affiliates in other places. Again, it doesn’t guarantee anything.
At the end of the day, I think the issue comes down to the question and how the question really implies, “Who can get me a job?” Remember, there are no guarantees. After all, all they can do is get you in the door. They can’t get you the job because your performance on the interviews may stink, your expectations may be atrocious, the resume is even worse, yada, yada, yada.
The fact is 70% of all positions are filled as a result of networking. 70% of those 70% are filled. As a result of introductions to people that you didn’t know at the beginning of your job search. You need to go out there and network and not just simply outsource your efforts to recruiting firms. Don’t just simply apply to job boards because, between job boards and recruiting firms, they only fill 30% of all jobs.
Don’t be a fool. Get out there and start meeting new people. Start talking to others. Don’t outsource just to recruiters.
[/spp-transcript]
Do you really think employers are trying to help you?
You already know you can’t trust recruiters—they tell you as much as they think you need to know to take the job they after representing so they collect their payday.
The skills needed to find a job are different yet complement the skills needed to do a job.
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter has been a career coach and recruiter for what seems like one hundred years.
JobSearchCoachingHQ.com changes that with great advice for job hunters—videos, my books and guides to job hunting, podcasts, articles, PLUS a community for you to ask questions of PLUS the ability to ask me questions where I function as your ally with no conflict of interest answering your questions.
You can order a copy of “Diagnosing Your Job Search Problems” for Kindle for $.99 and receive free Kindle versions of “No BS Resume Advice” and “Interview Preparation.”
EP 592 Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter explains how to SEO your LinkedIn profile.
How to SEO your LinkedIn profile
[spp-transcript]
Do you really think employers are trying to help you?
You already know you can’t trust recruiters—they tell you as much as they think you need to know to take the job they after representing so they collect their payday.
The skills needed to find a job are different yet complement the skills needed to do a job.
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter has been a career coach and recruiter for what seems like one hundred years.
JobSearchCoachingHQ.com changes that with great advice for job hunters—videos, my books and guides to job hunting, podcasts, articles, PLUS a community for you to ask questions of PLUS the ability to ask me questions where I function as your ally with no conflict of interest answering your questions.
You can order a copy of “Diagnosing Your Job Search Problems” for Kindle for $.99 and receive free Kindle versions of “No BS Resume Advice” and “Interview Preparation.”
Moving from a lower cost of living area to a higher one often poses challenges for job hunters. Here, I answer someone’s question about a move to Seattle.
[spp-transcript]
I received a question from a Lester that I think is very good and I thought I would cover here. The question is:
“I live in New Jersey and I am interviewing with a company in Seattle. They are having a third interview with me a few days at a general manager level but they haven’t asked me about my salary requirement yet. They have asked what I am currently earning at the 1st interview.” Wisely, the job hunters looked at several cost-of-living sites like Bankrate, Sperling (bestplaces.net) CNNMoney.com, Salaryexpert.com and all indicate that Seattle’s cost-of-living and all indicate that Seattle’s cost-of-living is between 13% and 21% higher than where he lives now. They will indicate that his salary in Seattle should be more in order to maintain his cost-of-living… It’s a much more expensive area, quite obviously.
The person asks, “Is it reasonable to ask the company for a cost-of-living increase plus a salary increase as an incentive to come to work for them?” For example, if he stayed where he is in New Jersey and got a new job, he thinks he will get a 15 to 20% increase to move to a new company. “Is it reasonable to ask for an incentive increase on top of the cost-of-living increase to maintain the standard of living, i.e. a 13% cost-of-living increase plus 20%?”
He continues to write on, “the thing is, if I get an offer, I don’t think will be anywhere near my present salary plus 33%, which is what it would take for me to move.” This is based on sit on salary information from glassdoor.com. The company is offering RSU’s vesting over several years and then he goes on to details about. He is asking for advice here.
First of all, I think it is wise that you went out and did some research. The research should teach you, as it has, that there is a different cost-of-living. For example, if a person from Seattle moved to Florida, for example, salaries are lower, cost-of-living is lower, housing costs are lower. Yada yada yada. The reverse is true. Someone from New Jersey moved to Seattle, they’ll find it more expensive.
Should you deal with? Absolutely. You have to deal with. Certainly, before you fly out to meet with them, it’s wise of you to consider how to present this. For the purposes of this next interview with the general manager, unless you know this is the final interview (I’ll come back to this if it is the final interview), if this is a third interview but not the final interview, you are still in selling mode. You want them to fall in love because, after all, no love, no money, no job right? Keep selling. If it is a standard 3rd interview.
Now, if it is the final interview, then it is a different scenario. In the final one, what you need to do is address the salary stuff. But, you want to be not quite as close minded as you are here. Salary survey sites are notoriously inaccurate. They pull certain people who are more likely to respond to salary surveys. Often the data is provided by organizations whose interest it is to demonstrate that your salary is too low. For example, years ago there was a salary survey done by a recruiting firm. Everyone’s salary look like they were making too little money. That’s because it was in their interest to suggest, “Oooh! You’re not making enough money. You should come to work for 1 of our clients and we will get you a new job.” That was the response from everyone.
For you, if you are talking with them and it is a final interview, you need to address this in a casual way. It’s the money conversation comes up, you can gracefully say, “This is what I’m currently earning but I want you to understand and in case you don’t, there’s a cost-of-living difference between where I live and where you live. I can’t just pretend it doesn’t exist. I’m not here to live with three roommates if I moved to Seattle in order to take a job with you. I have to be compensated fairly.”
Now, he mentions there are RSU’s in the firm will probably counter with that. You need to respond by saying, “That’s great. That is my future upside. For now, I need to pay bills. The difference between New Jersey and Seattle (whatever the percentage is) is between 13% and 22%… And that is just to make me whole. It doesn’t advantage me in any way from a compensation standpoint because I’m not changing jobs just for lateral. To you, it may look like a big increase but, for me, it’s just a lateral to get the cost-of-living adjustment difference. And, I don’t know what an apartment comparable to what I’m living in now costs here. I’m just working with data here. What I would say is that you need to be prepared to give me a decent sized offer.“
“What is a decent sized offer?” This is how they will respond.
“Certainly above what I’m making now plus the cost-of-living plus an increase.”
Since you have already quoted the Cost-of-living increase, they have a sense of what that’s going to be. They will probably work on the basis of the 13% because because you have said, it can be 13% to 21%. Speak of it as 18% to 21% in your conversations with them. In doing so, you are giving them a sense of what they are going to need to do.
Now, is it likely the deal is going to blow up? With some firms as will and with some firms. It won’t. Let’s not be foolish here. If it is going to blow up, is going to blow up, even if you wait till the last minute.
If you are still interviewing, whether it is the 3rd or the 5th interview, the 3rd or 4th, probably this conversation shouldn’t occur. If this is the final interview. It has to be laid out somewhere along the line here where they might simply say, “Do you have any questions for us?”
You can respond by saying, “I really love this job. It is a terrific organization and I would so much like to come to work for you. At the same time I have to look at the compensation, as well. I’ve been doing my homework and I’m finding that the salary differential between New Jersey where I now live and where you are 18% to 21%.“
“Where did you find that out?”
The you give them websites, the ones with the higher ranges in their. “If I just got an 18% to 21% increase, that just balances things out. It is not advantaging me anyway.”
“What about the RSU’s?“
“They are not going to pay my bills. That is going to be for all the effort and all the work that I put in for how many years until they get fully vested. So, for now, my focus is on getting increase, not just simply based on my base salary but getting a cost-of-living differential as well as an increase on the base.“
It has to be addressed. You can’t ignore it. Otherwise they will extend an offer based upon the lowest common point that will likely be turned down by you. You will have wasted even more time.
[/spp-transcript]
If you have a question about job hunting, email me at JobSearchRadio@gmail.com. I can’t answer every question . . . but you knew that!
Do you think employers are trying to help you?
You already know you can’t trust recruiters—they tell as they think you need to know to take the job they after representing so they collect their payday. The skills needed to find a job are different yet complement the skills needed to do a job.
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter has been a career coach and recruiter for what seems like one hundred years.
JobSearchCoachingHQ.com is there to change that with great advice for job hunters—videos, my books and guides to job hunting, podcasts, articles, PLUS a community for you to ask questions of PLUS the ability to ask me questions where I function as your ally with no conflict of interest answering your questions.
[svp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlozDGec0L8[/svp] I take a look at 2 stories of my own to help you and myself.
[spp-transcript]
I want to share some of my own story as the subject of this video. Let me start by saying that this is a hard thing to admit because I’m really competent in almost everything that I do and I don’t make a lot of mistakes but on Friday, I was doing a coaching practicum and I “stink up the joint.”
I miss things I would normally catch. I just did not perform at a high level. I don’t even think I perform the mediocre level. I was just bad.
My 1st reaction was to point the finger and blame the other person I was coaching as though he was at fault for my performance. A practicum is a process where you have 30 minutes to coach someone you have never spoken with before, you don’t know what the subject is going to be, but you have 30 minutes. You’re going to be observed by a more experienced coach and by others. It is like a fishbowl. You have seen the scenes in movies or in hospitals where there is a theater where the surgeon is performing surgery and observed by less experienced physicians.
It kinda feels that way because there are people who are observing and they are quiet during the coaching session (their mics are muted) and there are other participants as well is the head coach for the occasion, who are also observing.
You have 30 minutes, not 31, 30 minutes. It’s hard to admit, but I stank. I missed a lot of turns and my 1st reaction was to blame the person I was coaching. He set me up. He wasn’t well prepared. After all, you’re supposed to arrive at the practicum with something to be coached on and he gave me the idea that he was making it up as he went along. After 5 minutes, he said, “I’m not really sure if this is what I want to be coached about.” As a result, I missed the turn where I could’ve asked him about what he did want to be coached about and exploring whether or not the reason for the shift that he was hitting on something that was too close to him.
But I blamed him because in my mind, I created a story about this guy and, like I said, I stink up the joint.
I don’t care who you are, but there are things you do where, at times, you blame others just like I did here. Instead of looking at yourself as being the source, you look at the political environment, you look at bias (which obviously exists) and neglect to look at your part in the scenario.
There are places where you criticize others when you are ill prepared for the circumstances. I thought I was well prepared but my head wasn’t and it showed in this coaching circumstance.
I’ll simply say that were blame belongs are with oneself. You don’t do a good enough job and you start to blame your resources, you blame the coworkers… What about you? What is your part in all of this?
I want to encourage you that before you start lashing out like I was doing, think in terms of your part in this. For some reason, this played on an old message of mine that happened 8 or 9 years ago when I was attempting to be certified by a group that I was involved with to lead their weekend retreats. Without going into a lot of boring details, I felt like I was screwed over by the people who were evaluating.
I was lashing out. I was criticizing. Blame blame blame blame blame.
It was me and, on this occasion, I didn’t show up like I normally do. I didn’t acknowledge my own foibles afterwards. I blamed the panel.
You don’t need to blame others. It isn’t really useful for you.
All that happens if you confront them is they dig in their heels, they try to argue with you. They have the authority and the power and, thus, they are right. It forced me to look back at myself as I did in what happened on Friday and look at my own part in acknowledge that I wasn’t really all that good.
So, again, blame belongs with oneself. Most of the time, not with others. Learn that lesson. It’s a hard one for most people to learn, but you will be much happier if you do.
[/spp-transcript]
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter has been coaching people to play their professional and personal games BIG for what seems like 100 years.
Ep 591 Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter explains how to find out the name of the company that is hiring for that job when the Recruiter drops the ball.
[spp-transcript]
I want to help solve the puzzle that some of you have about finding a hiring firm. There is a situation that happened to someone I knew. It was in my coaching program and this happened to him several years ago. He saw a listing from a recruiter, contacted the person the person did not get back to him for 3 or 4 days, even though they said they were getting them the next morning. He called. No response. He did it twice more, without response. He really felt he fit the job and asked me for advice.
I said, “Here is what you do. Sometimes, recruiters are a bit lazy so they will copy and paste job descriptions and turn them into ads. Why don’t you do a Google search, taking some lines out of the job description and see if you can find the position.” Sometimes, the recruiter will change a few of the words so try to start off with a broad sentence, like the 2nd or 3rd sentence, not necessarily the 1st. You try to look at the requirements of the job and take 2 or 3 bullet points, especially if there is lengthy text. There. That entered into Google and see if it turns up something for you.
You can try the same thing with indeed but start with Google as your 1st choice.
What happened for this person is that they were able to find the position and apply for the job and the firm did not hire him! The recruiters judgment was correct. He wasn’t really a fit. However, if you really believe you are and you want to do this, this is the simplest way to get in touch with the firm. See if you can find the third-party recruiter who is sufficiently lazy that all they did was copy and paste the job description and then you can find.
There’s always the advantage of working through the third-party recruiter. And I want to be clear about this. If you can work through the recruiter, you are advantaged. The firm is advantaged… There are lots of advantages for you, including the fact that they are handling all the scheduling for you, they are going to be the ones hocking or pushing the client to see you, they’re going to be negotiating and know the rough edges because I have a relationship with the client and speak to those rough edges and overcome the issues. There are lots of advantages of working with a recruiter.
However, if for some reason they dropped the ball or they make a judgment that you disagree with, this is the way to find that about the job so the you can apply directly
[/spp-transcript]
Do you really think employers are trying to help you?
You already know you can’t trust recruiters—they tell you as much as they think you need to know to take the job they after representing so they collect their payday.
The skills needed to find a job are different yet complement the skills needed to do a job.
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter has been a career coach and recruiter for what seems like one hundred years.
JobSearchCoachingHQ.com changes that with great advice for job hunters—videos, my books and guides to job hunting, podcasts, articles, PLUS a community for you to ask questions of PLUS the ability to ask me questions where I function as your ally with no conflict of interest answering your questions.
You can order a copy of “Diagnosing Your Job Search Problems” for Kindle for $.99 and receive free Kindle versions of “No BS Resume Advice” and “Interview Preparation.”
Do you think “Apply with LinkedIn” makes sense? Let me tell you my thinking.
[spp-transcript]
If you have a question about job hunting, email me at JobSearchRadio@gmail.com. I can’t answer every question . . . but you knew that!
Do you think employers are trying to help you?
You already know you can’t trust recruiters—they tell as they think you need to know to take the job they after representing so they collect their payday. The skills needed to find a job are different yet complement the skills needed to do a job.
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter has been a career coach and recruiter for what seems like one hundred years.
JobSearchCoachingHQ.com is there to change that with great advice for job hunters—videos, my books and guides to job hunting, podcasts, articles, PLUS a community for you to ask questions of PLUS the ability to ask me questions where I function as your ally with no conflict of interest answering your questions.
